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Your question: Greetings In Jesus! I have always thought of Isaiah 14:12-14 as a description of the original war in heaven where Lucifer lost his bid to sit on the throne of the Most High God. In my approach to Revelation 12:7-12 however, I thought perhaps this was a second encounter or a look back to the original rebellion as I view it from Isaiah 14. I would really enjoy hearing your view on this. Be blessed! W. |
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My answer: W., You wrote: I have always thought of Isaiah 14:12-14 as a description of the original war in heaven where Lucifer lost his bid to sit on the throne of the Most High God. My response: Many mistakenly interpret Isaiah's passage as a past event, but actually it is a prophecy of things to come. There are no scriptures that support a war in heaven in the past. As I am sure you do, we must always look at the context of the passage. If we start in 14:1-2 we see a promise for the future. These verses depict the beginning of the thousand year reign. Israel's remnant has been brought back and the believing gentiles are joined with them (Zechariah 2:11, Matthew 8:5-12), this is post resurrection. The House of Israel will possess the nations and rule over her captives. Verses 3-8 are a view of the peace of God spreading over the earth on the day He vanquishes His enemies. Verses 9-23 show us both Satan and his son the antichrist. We see their aspirations to become like God. We see that they have failed in their bid for supremacy and the pit is their lot. Verse 13 is of special note because it is on Mount Zion that the antichrist becomes the abomination that causes desolation. Specifically, he who rules from Zion rules the world. Satan rules this world for now, but other than temporary exiles and punishments of Israel by God, Satan has not ruled his kingdom from Zion. Michael the chief prince and protector of Israel has prevented it (Daniel 10:13 & 21). When Israel rebels against the covenant and the antichrist is enthroned in the temple on Zion then Revelation 12:7-12 happens. You wrote: In my approach to Revelation 12:7-12 however, I thought perhaps this was a second encounter or a look back to the original rebellion as I view it from Isaiah 14. My response: Again I must emphasis that war
has not happened yet in heaven. This is so because
Satan still has access to the throne to accuse the brothers
before the Father (verse 10). Israel will rebel against the covenant
which will start her desolation (tribulation). Michael will be
the one who is removed from hindering the antichrist because
of Israel's rebellion The events in Isaiah and Revelation are linked. They speak of the same events, only Isaiah's prophecy speaks of events after Christ comes and John in Revelation 12 of events just before Christ comes. This is a nutshell and leaves plenty of room for questions. I would be honored to continue answering your questions as the LORD leads. I pray that I have served you well. In the service of the LORD Jesus, Randy |
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Your question: Randy, Thank you for such a quick response! I must admit that I have isolated that particular portion of Isaiah 14 for years in a past tense very much as I have with Eze. 28. (Although I recognize that this account can also be reconciled to actual events in history, I hold that the Lord is more than capable of speaking to the natural while addressing the spiritual.) I preach a simple message of repentance and salvation and we try to bring some basic teaching over the air waves in a local outreach. I am always open to letting the Lord use another to fine tune or flat out change my humble theology. I believe that you have caused me to begin to re-examine my approach to Isaiah 14 to be sure. I may as well take advantage of your gracious input and lay out the rest of my train of thought. As I look at 2nd Peter 2.4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" And Luke 10.18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." I see that something has taken place in a past tense. Then when I consider a passage such as Ephesians 6.12, I see a picture of a satanic presence that continues to operate not only on earth, but in a place above the earth. In my attempt to work this all out, I see Satan cut down a peg or two if you will forgive a crude analogy, but not yet excluded from his 'running to and fro'. Speaking of crude analogies, Pete Rose is banned from baseball forever, but he can still go to a ball game or speak to the commissioner in his office. All of this is far from an argumentive spirit by the way. I have a great respect for the work you have done in an area that has been lacking in my own studies. In any event, you have probably already figured out that I come from a place that sees Lucifer as a leader of worship in heaven at one time and his pride getting the best of him, etc. It seems to fit well to view many of these scriptures in light of such an understanding as this and indeed, without them to look at this way, I suspect that I would need to go back to the drawing board completely. Stay Blessed! W. |
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My answer: W., You wrote: As I look at 2nd Peter 2.4 "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" And Luke 10.18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." I see that something has taken place in a past tense. Then when I consider a passage such as Ephesians 6.12, I see a picture of a satanic presence that continues to operate not only on earth, but in a place above the earth. In my attempt to work this all out, I see Satan cut down a peg or two if you will forgive a crude analogy, but not yet excluded from his 'running to and fro'. Speaking of crude analogies, Pete Rose is banned from baseball forever, but he can still go to a ball game or speak to the commissioner in his office. My response: Absolutely right, there was rebellion in the past by Satan and the angels, but like Pete Rose, Satan and his angels remain subservient to God (or the commissioner). In other words God is still in charge and there has been no real challenge to His throne. Pete Rose did not go to war against the baseball commissioner and Satan has not yet gone to war against God. Satan has fallen from office (formerly Lucifer, Leader of Worship) but still submits to the throne. When Satan was removed from his responsibilities he took to roaming the earth as did many of his lieutenants. We know from scripture that some angels are prisoners because they will not submit. Prior to casting Legion into the herd of swine Legion begged not to be thrown into the Abyss. His submission to Christ bought his freedom from imprisonment. We know that the demons in the Abyss will be released in the last days and will cause the greatest of woes upon those who are not of the LORD. You wrote: All of this is far from an argumentive spirit by the way. I have a great respect for the work you have done in an area that has been lacking in my own studies. In any event, you have probably already figured out that I come from a place that sees Lucifer as a leader of worship in heaven at one time and his pride getting the best of him, etc. It seems to fit well to view many of these scriptures in light of such an understanding as this and indeed, without them to look at this way, I suspect that I would need to go back to the drawing board completely. My response: I know by what spirit you come and I welcome you, I am not offended. I believe that a periodic "back to the drawing board" would do us all good. We are actually in agreement here for the most part. Satan and his angels did let their pride get the best of them, but not to the point of war in heaven. God, forever knowing, has simply foretold that His morning star will turn on his creator in full blown rebellion and war, but will not be strong enough to overcome the armies of heaven. Again, it is my prayer that I have served you well. In the service of the LORD Jesus, Randy |
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